A Physical Place

I thought the first section was a good treatment of what he calls Christoplatonism.  He begins by addressing the contention that of physical heaven would be less excellent than a purely spiritual heaven.  It reminded me of C.S. Lewis' quote (from I don't know where)... "God likes matter.  He invented it."

He also makes an interesting point about deriving our inferences not from the nature of God, but from the nature of humanity.  The idea is that God (being almighty and all) could dwell just about anywhere.  As humans, we aren't promised all of God's infinite attributes.  Therefore, he reasons, we should think about the possibilities of heaven in the likely limitations of humans rather than the awesome capability of God.  Interesting.

The thought from the second section that jumped out at me was this:  "We should stop thinking of Heaven and Earth as opposites and instead view them as overlapping circles that share certain commonalities."  While Earth is certainly under the curse, it's wrong to think of it as more like Hell than Heaven.  God created Earth as a good dwelling for man.  Despite the pains brought on by sin, it still bears much of its grand qualities.  Similarly, though we are fallen we still bear the image of God.

I'll skip ahead to the section dealing with the rich man and Lazarus.  While I think he ends up at a pretty balanced position, some of his argumentation is bothersome.  Specifically, he supports his point by saying, "Jesus could easily have portrayed the rich man and Lazarus in other ways.  He could have said..."  To claim that your interpretation retains validity because Jesus didn't state things in a fashion that would have contradicted your interpretation isn't utterly convincing.

Our Layover in the Intermediate Heaven (Chapter 5)

Chapter 5 really just introduced the idea of the intermediate Heaven. So many things stuck out to me in this chapter. I have found that more questions arise as I read this book, but I trust that Randy will get to the answers in later chapters. For example, the New Earth will be a "completely renovated" picture of what we see around us. So, will our same condo be "without sin" and not have a noisy dishwasher? I know that is trivial, but you get the idea.

I was reminded of the instant nature of death. When a person dies, (BOOM!), they are right there, standing before the judgment seat. What a sobering thought. Encouraging for us that Christ is with believers in the "transitional" Heaven - 'to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord'.

More mind-blowing to me, is the reminder that I will give an account of ALL my actions at the Final Judgment. It really puts things into perspective. But praise God! That is what we all need, a heavenly perspective. Even at a young age for some of us, present company excluded, we should be putting a higher price tag on our time. I don't know where to draw the line between study, prayer, service, and leisure. I know that God is pleased when I honor Him, no matter what I am doing. But what about watching the game or a DVD, reading Time mag, playing risk online? I know it is an issue of priorities and what comes first should be my relationship with the Lord, fleshed out by study, meditation, prayer, and good deeds. I think I will continue to redraw the line as I grow in my faith. Any convictions from you guys?

He doesn't go into detail about rewards but I like that he footnotes some books on the topic. I want to be more familiar with his rewards for believers because He tells us to believe in His promises.

wow chapter 5

First of all, it's wonderful to finally be blogging with you. God makes life so easy. It's amazing how often I forget this. All of the wonderful truths that sounded intimidating but still entangled me with excitment in chapter 5 were all promises given to us by our Lord, taken from His Word. I am so thankful for Randy Alcorn and his faith in this endeavor because just contemplating the idea of a seperate intermediate state of Heaven and a New Earth is incredibly daunting for me. I am also thankful for the oppurtunity that the Lord has graciously given me in this book study to learn about our future home. So, we WILL (this is guaranteed, promised by our GOD) live on a New Earth where Heaven and Earth come together as one, where we are free from the burden of this world, and where we not only live with our Creator but we actually do things like EAT and WORK and HANG OUT.....that's AWESOME! It is things such as these that can truly ease the worried mind of a 22 year old, single, newly Christian man. This book is amazing because it helps me to understand the promises that God has laid out for me in scripture that I can glance over sometimes without giving them the attention they deserve. This for example,"the meek shall inherit the earth." THINK ABOUT THAT! What does inheritance mean? It will be ours because God has made it for us, and He will live with us! After reading this chapter I am the most convicted when I think about how analytical I can be. This book is helping me to live in light of the Resurrection and to put down my magnifying glass and just praise God. I am sincerely looking forward to the weeks to come.

Chapter 4 - I know I'm Going to Heaven

This short chapter makes the point right up front that it is possible to know that you are going to heaven. This we call "assurance of salvation." and it is a joyous truth.

I can say with certainty that I have expereinced this daily since the day I accepted Jesus Christ. Since I was raised as a Catholic, I never had any assurance of salvation. Catholics don't realize this truth. I was hopeful that I would somehow make it, but never CERTAIN.

But on May 6, 1973, I gave my life to Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of God came in. I could not explain the Biblical reasons for it, but somehow I KNEW that I was assured of Heaven. I later learned that it was the Spirit that was bearing witness to my spirit about my sonship. I later learned that I "had the witness in myself."

This is a great question to ask an unbeliever..."are you CERTAIN that you are going to heaven?"

I hope all that read this blog can say that they KNOW they are going to heaven.

I am totally looking forward to moving through this book.

We need everyone to post. If you are behind, don't try to catch up, just join the discussion at Chapter 4 with the rest of us. We want to hear from you.

Love to all.

Dad

Chapter 3 - Our Default Destination

Well, my apologies for taking so long to get to this posting. It is not due to lack of interest, but merely due to a busy schedule.
I thought this chapter on hell was good. It needs to be part of any discussion of heaven. So many people just believe that they are going to heaven because they think they are good enough. I don't think most people believe in a real hell. This is tragic. I also have observed that many pastors are hesitant to preach on hell. Not a popular topic, to be sure, but very necessary.

I have a couple of observations from the chapter.
First, Alcorn has done a great job giving the Biblical perspective on hell. If there is no hell, then what did Jesus die to save us from?

Rather than repeat many of Alcorn's excellent points, I would like to contribute a couple of additional thoughts.
I believe hell is a literal place and it is a place of literal burning. Many people have tried to make hell into some ethereal place where the torment is the mental anguish of separation from God. This certainly is true, but the greater anguish is going to be the intense flames on a resurrected (but not glorified) body. Remember that Jesus said that all will be resurrected, some to eternal life, some to eternal damnation. I think that a person who is in the anguish of a raging hot inferno will not be concerned about the mental regret of separation from God's love. He will be screaming in pain. "Wailing and gnashing of teeth."
This last week, Matt and I were asked to help Grandpa Stewart with his "burn pile." This was a big pile of waste twigs and logs that were piled high and set on fire to dispose of them. It turned into a raging bonfire with flames 20 feet high. We needed to toss branches around the edge into the center to make sure everything got burned. The heat was so intense that we could not even stand to go near the flames. It was incredibly HOT. The thought occurred to me that if I were to fall into this flame, the pain would be unimaginably intense. Such is going to be the pain of the flames in hell. It is real flame, real heat, real burning. Screaming, writhing in pain...never ending. Sober to contemplate.
Such is the nature of sin and its just punishment.
Alcorn makes a good point on page 25 that I want to comment on. "In the Bible, Jesus says more than anyone else about hell." This is correct. I have often heard a similar statement which is , however, incorrect. Some have said that Jesus said more about hell than He did about heaven. Not so. The Kingdom of Heaven was Jesus' favorite subject. How do I know? I actually counted the passages. Heaven wins over hell in frequency. I am so glad.
For me, as a believer, I need to seriously consider the horror of what I have been saved from, then rejoice in what has become my eternal destiny (by the grace of God).

Love to all , Dad

Destination: Known (Chapter 4)

Let me first start off by saying that I am happy to be done with the introductory chapters. While I have found them to be good reminders, I think we can all agree that the bulk of the book is what caused us to start this book discussion. Additionally, I know first hand that things have been hectic lately, and may continue with Christmas, but I hope we can all find time to discuss the chapters.
With that said, I have only a few observations concerning Chapter 4. Not long ago, a friend's friend roommate passed away suddenly. A lot was mentioned about how nice a boy he was and many believed that he was in Heaven. Only problem was he never made a profession of faith. Many people I talk to and/or work with have this nonassuring hope that they will be good enough to get into heaven. But the Bible is very clear that the problem of sin must be dealt with. "If we want to be forgiven, we must recognize and repent of our sins" (page 34). Those who think they are "christians" and live trying to earn just enough points to get into Heaven have not surrendered control of their life to Jesus and will not find themselves in Heaven.
One other point that I appreciated was Alcorn's emphasis on church participation. Many people have been turned away from the church for far too many reasons. Alcorn reminded us that the church is a hospital for sinners and not a "showcase for saints". All true believers need to be involved in a local Christ-centered church where God's Word is preached for the benefit of all human, imperfect, and needy sinners. The only way to fight false doctrine in our lives is to expose ourselves to Godly leaders found in the church and ultimately surrender control to Jesus.

THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND-FOLLOWER OF JESUS OR NOT.

The Best (and Worst) of Life...But a Glimpse

Sadly, it has been a while since I "witnessed" in the traditional sense. By traditional, I mean meeting a complete stranger and sharing the gospel with him. By God's grace, I have had many opportunities to have spiritual discussions with people at work and even had the joy of watching some come to Jesus. But it is sobering to think that most people I see HOPE they can get into Heaven. The fact is that everyone thinks about death. Especially in the wake of the California fires, people directly and indirectly affected take stock of their lives and where they might go when they reach the end of the line. What a ministry opportunity I waste when someone starts small talk in line at the grocery store! "Yeah, it's terrible", I might fumble around to say to this 'weirdo' who doesn't know me but started talking to me. How about saying, "Really makes you think about what's important. Do you feel comfortable about where you will go when you die?" Chapter 3 was a good reminder to me that I should not hold onto the knowledge of Heaven that I will read in this book and Scripture for myself, but proclaim it to those around me. The world's default destination should first break my heart and then lead me to doorsteps. But it MUST break my heart FIRST. Only then can I talk to unbelievers about the realities of Hell with pure motives and a clean heart - not trying to pound it into their heads. I appreciated how Randy Alcorn stated it would be unloving to not share with others the reality of Hell. I do think that there is a general caution today not to offend people so we shy away from Hell. The gospel must be at the forefront of our minds and mouths but the warning of Hell for those who reject the gospel must also be present.
With that said, I also appreciated the 'eternal non-life' description of Hell. Taken from 2 Thess. 1:9, Alcorn stated that community, friendship, and God Himself would be absent from Hell. There will be no company for the miserable! What also struck me was "For Christians, this present life is the closest they will come to Hell. For unbelievers, it is the closest they will come to Heaven". What a crazy thought. It is encouraging for us as we live in the presence of prevailing sin and deception, but it is awful for those who know nothing of Jesus Christ and His love that drove Him to Hell for those who would believe.
I pray that we will be more faithful to speak about Jesus and warn against Hell to those around us.

Heaven and the Bodily Resurrection - Chapter 2

I'm a little late on this posting, but I thought Chapter 2 was very good.
The key point I see in this chapter is that the Bible reveals heaven to be a physical place. A main reason for this is that our residence in heaven is linked to the bodily resurrection. This is pretty exciting.
Many years ago I came to realize that the Lord had promised to raise us up bodily at His return. That meant that for all eternity, we would inhabit our glorified bodies. Just as Jesus'body was physical after His resurrection, so will ours be also. This imples that heaven will be physical, as we will live there in physical bodies. I also began to see this more clearly when I realized that Jesus ascended to heaven in a bodily form. That means that when he sat down at the right hand of the Father, He did so in His glorified body. What an amazing thought.
This opens up entire new realities concerning heaven. The concept fo floating on a cloud somewhere is clearly unscriptural.
The other main thought I got from this chapter was that we should be heavenly minded. We should think about heaven...a lot.
Some people have cautioned about being "too heavenly minded" so as to be no earthly good. I so agree with the words on page 21, that the more truly heavenly minded we become, the more earthly good we can accomplish.

The Broad Road

The third chapter briefly speaks about the significance of hell.

First, we're reminded that Hell is the default destination for all people.  We have nothing to gain by giving ourselves or others the benefit of the doubt with regard to Hell.  Jesus' tells us clearly that most people will not be in Heaven; most are headed down the wide road that leads to Hell.

The second section highlights the severity of Hell. I don't think any of us would deny that the notion of Hell is not taken very seriously in our culture.  However, I found myself challenged to take it more seriously.  If I believe Hell is real, if I believe most people are on their way to Hell, and if I believe those people will suffer real agonizing punishment in Hell, why am I so shy about the topic?

On the occasions when people have asked me frankly whether I thought they were going to hell for rejecting the Gospel, why do I initially hesitate to affirm such a basic truth?  Am I somehow afraid of how he might react?  If I let that fear guide me, then I'm now in a position where man's reaction takes precedence over God's reaction.  Furthermore, it's absurd to think that God hasn't accounted for the way people would respond to truths about Hell.  On the contrary, hearing the truth about Hell is supposed to make an unrepentant sinner feel awful inasmuch as he realizes the awfulness of his situation.

I appreciated the way Alcorn connected the severity of Hell to the glory of the cross.  To the degree that we try to "out-love" God and soften the realities of Hell, we weaken His work on the Cross.  I want to be careful about entering the realm of unprofitable disputes, but... would it be correct to say:  An ironic effect of over-emphasizing God's love, when it neglects the harsh but true realities of His disposition toward sin, is that the love itself loses some of its potency.

Christ's death was not primarily a solution to the problem of meaningless living.  Christ's death was not primarily a solution to the problem of dysfunctional families.  Christ's death was not primarily a solution to the pain of earthly suffering.  His death was a solution to the problem of sin and its eternal penalty in Hell.

Alcorn lays it out well in the fourth section.  The idea that it's unloving to speak of Hell is not an idea that comes from God.

One popular way that we seem to try to soften Hell is by explaining Hell in terms of separation from God.  I haven't found that this always carries much weight with those who don't value closeness with God in the first place.

Does anyone else sometimes struggle explaining the disaster awaiting those on the wide road?  I know it's easier for me to appeal to a person's desire to know and act according to truth rather than appeal to the need to escape sure judgement.

"Don't Dump Cold Water On All That God Has Revealed"

When I started talking to people about this book study, one staff member commented, "Since there is so much mystery surrounding Heaven, should we even speculate about what we cannot understand? Doesn't the Bible say that Heaven is beyond our imagination?". Chapter 2 answers this common question.
First of all, it is pointed out the Bible uses familiar concepts to bridge the gap of our small minds when discussing Heaven. A garden, a city, a kingdom are a few such pictures. The problem is that too many times, we think Heaven is a non-physical place and therefore these pictures are only analogies of something far more spiritual. Our failure to see Heaven as a physical place causes us to push Heaven aside under the excuse that it is beyond our mere minds to think about, let alone long after our future home. Remember to read 1 Cor 2:9 in context and see that God has revealed mysteries to us through His Spirit and His Word. Also, while there are many things we cannot know about God, Jesus spoke often of Heaven. Additionally, Paul commands us to diligently keep seeking things above. We must be careful not to get caught up in the stereotypical views of Heaven. One of the ways we can do that is by viewing Heaven through Scripture. What a novel concept!!
One encouragement Randy makes is to "look around you and imagine what all this would be like without sin and death and suffering and corruption". It is wonderful to think that such a place awaits for us where fellowship and worship will take place and sin will not creep its dirty head. I know that too often I get distracted in my worship-not in Heaven!
I know that these first couple of chapters are introductory, but it is good to set out some of these principles so that we can know for ourselves and encourage others that Heaven IS a physical place and there is Scripture we can meditate on.

"Seeing Through The Fog"

First of all, I am glad that we are all reading this book. I think it will help to have accountability and discussion about it. I really enjoyed the Intro and Chapter One. It was a great reminder for me that while I am supposed to look forward to Heaven, my future home is neglected. I hope that as I work through this book the neglect will be transformed into longing. In talking to many of you, I know you are also eager to read this book.

If you haven't started with the Intro or Chapter One, I encourage you to take a moment and read through it. It doesn't take very long to get through. From the outset he points out that Heaven is a physical place and I am sure that he will develop this further in the book, supporting ALL his conclusions with scripture. The idea of physicality is something that I had heard but naturally did not ever think about. I suppose my thoughts created a "spiritual" because the body is dead. I don't want to get ahead of the book, but I think he is heading in the direction of stating that our resurrected state will be similar to Jesus' resurrected body - physical. John 20:27 says, "Then He said to Thomas, 'Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing'."

The other main point that challenged me was Satan's plan of action. Obviously, most believers and many unbelievers acknowledge an afterlife. But the inaccurate view of God's Heaven is what hinders people in this life. Satan is not concerned with spreading a lie that there is no Heaven. He has victory in misrepresenting Heaven.

I have to pray that I can see through the fog of inaccuracies and lies that Satan has set out and trust that God will use this book to stir up a greater desire for Heaven.

Heaven

Hi Everyone!

If you found this page I assume you are interesting in discussing the Heaven book by Randy Alcorn. I hope that this book study will allow us all to become more familiar with the subject of heaven and long for it as Christ commands. This first entry is more of a test run. Please add a note or something to let me know that everyone will be able to write their thoughts on the chapter. If this works then we will start chapter one this week.


Matt